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	<title>Comments on: When Did Success Become a Curse Word?</title>
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		<title>By: In it to Win It &#171; Red Sea School</title>
		<link>http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/comment-page-1/#comment-49795</link>
		<dc:creator>In it to Win It &#171; Red Sea School</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 07:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/26/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/#comment-49795</guid>
		<description>[...] the comments she says: I see many times where life is a win-lose situation. You can win a scholarship, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the comments she says: I see many times where life is a win-lose situation. You can win a scholarship, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lisse</title>
		<link>http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/comment-page-1/#comment-34767</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 16:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/26/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/#comment-34767</guid>
		<description>Delurking just to say, that our society places way too much emphasis on Winning as Everything. I think that unchecked, it can be rather destructive and lead to anxious children and parents fighting on the sidelines. 

Kids who put a lot of effort into something that didn&#039;t win and therefore went unnoticed will start to think that effort is worthless. That&#039;s how kids get lost and demotivated.

Sure, it would be great for my kids to win competitions from time to time, but what I really want is for them to understand the value of doing their best. I don&#039;t understand why that&#039;s no longer enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Delurking just to say, that our society places way too much emphasis on Winning as Everything. I think that unchecked, it can be rather destructive and lead to anxious children and parents fighting on the sidelines. </p>
<p>Kids who put a lot of effort into something that didn&#8217;t win and therefore went unnoticed will start to think that effort is worthless. That&#8217;s how kids get lost and demotivated.</p>
<p>Sure, it would be great for my kids to win competitions from time to time, but what I really want is for them to understand the value of doing their best. I don&#8217;t understand why that&#8217;s no longer enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Penny</title>
		<link>http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/comment-page-1/#comment-34568</link>
		<dc:creator>Penny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 17:19:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/26/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/#comment-34568</guid>
		<description>My daughter&#039;s young, but I&#039;ve found she&#039;s benefitted immeasurably from being removed from all competitive or comparative situations.  In her strong areas she would hate to stand out so she didn&#039;t really do anything.  In her weak areas she would hate to stand out so she didn&#039;t do anything.  So many teachers (I mean in activities, not especially school), think children learn well through playing games, but there is usually a competitive component, and this shuts her down.  She loves the sense of progress compared to where she was before.  Maybe it will all change as she gets older.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My daughter&#8217;s young, but I&#8217;ve found she&#8217;s benefitted immeasurably from being removed from all competitive or comparative situations.  In her strong areas she would hate to stand out so she didn&#8217;t really do anything.  In her weak areas she would hate to stand out so she didn&#8217;t do anything.  So many teachers (I mean in activities, not especially school), think children learn well through playing games, but there is usually a competitive component, and this shuts her down.  She loves the sense of progress compared to where she was before.  Maybe it will all change as she gets older.</p>
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		<title>By: Jean-Luc Picard</title>
		<link>http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/comment-page-1/#comment-34393</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean-Luc Picard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/26/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/#comment-34393</guid>
		<description>People should always try to be a success in life. The only alternative is a failure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People should always try to be a success in life. The only alternative is a failure.</p>
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		<title>By: COD</title>
		<link>http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/comment-page-1/#comment-34152</link>
		<dc:creator>COD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/26/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/#comment-34152</guid>
		<description>Coach Norman Dale said it best.

&lt;i&gt;If you put your effort and concentration into playing to your potential, to be the best that you can be, I don&#039;t care what the scoreboard says at the end of the game, in my book we&#039;re gonna be winners.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coach Norman Dale said it best.</p>
<p><i>If you put your effort and concentration into playing to your potential, to be the best that you can be, I don&#8217;t care what the scoreboard says at the end of the game, in my book we&#8217;re gonna be winners.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Jess</title>
		<link>http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/comment-page-1/#comment-34148</link>
		<dc:creator>Jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/26/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/#comment-34148</guid>
		<description>With my kid, it&#039;s easy. He gets a hit every time, never misses a ball, and wins the game, or else he gets a spanking and, of course, no dinner. 

There&#039;s no positive reinforcement in baseball!! 

Just kidding...don&#039;t go call CPS on me. 

I agree with Shannon. Winning isn&#039;t EVERYTHING, but it is why we show up isn&#039;t it? Having fun, doing your best, challenging onself, gaining a feeling of accomplishment, and learning good sportsmanship to work as a team are all part of it as well. It&#039;s so much more that a &quot;W&quot; or &quot;L&quot;...it&#039;s the experience. I think kids learn more from a heartbreaking loss, like the one referred to in this post, than an easy win. Let&#039;s face it you are not going to &quot;win them all&quot; in anything in life. You might even get a few bad calls, i.e. runner should have been safe but was called out. I think it teaches that life is not fair, but you never give up. You go tell the other guy good game and shake his hand with class, you go home with your folks, and next time, you put your cleats on and try again... After your spanking of course. :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With my kid, it&#8217;s easy. He gets a hit every time, never misses a ball, and wins the game, or else he gets a spanking and, of course, no dinner. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s no positive reinforcement in baseball!! </p>
<p>Just kidding&#8230;don&#8217;t go call CPS on me. </p>
<p>I agree with Shannon. Winning isn&#8217;t EVERYTHING, but it is why we show up isn&#8217;t it? Having fun, doing your best, challenging onself, gaining a feeling of accomplishment, and learning good sportsmanship to work as a team are all part of it as well. It&#8217;s so much more that a &#8220;W&#8221; or &#8220;L&#8221;&#8230;it&#8217;s the experience. I think kids learn more from a heartbreaking loss, like the one referred to in this post, than an easy win. Let&#8217;s face it you are not going to &#8220;win them all&#8221; in anything in life. You might even get a few bad calls, i.e. runner should have been safe but was called out. I think it teaches that life is not fair, but you never give up. You go tell the other guy good game and shake his hand with class, you go home with your folks, and next time, you put your cleats on and try again&#8230; After your spanking of course. <img src='http://phatmommy.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Alasandra</title>
		<link>http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/comment-page-1/#comment-34142</link>
		<dc:creator>Alasandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/26/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/#comment-34142</guid>
		<description>We always try to WIN, hey I am a competitive type of person.

But I do try to stress that good SPORTSMANSHIP is important too, losing with grace is IMPORTANT. Just as learning to win with grace is.

For example at a recent soccer tournament. We came in second, which wasn&#039;t bad and all the teams we played against (except for the team that came in first place) was rooting for us to WIN. Why because the team that did win had the most obnoxious PARENTS you can imagine. They had managed to shut all the other teams out and they actually got VIOLENT when we scored. Their kids were actually asking them to be quit. The kids did play rough ........... but the parents WIN AT ALL COST attitude was really over the top. We tied them and we won all our other games, they won the tournament merely because they had shut the other teams out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We always try to WIN, hey I am a competitive type of person.</p>
<p>But I do try to stress that good SPORTSMANSHIP is important too, losing with grace is IMPORTANT. Just as learning to win with grace is.</p>
<p>For example at a recent soccer tournament. We came in second, which wasn&#8217;t bad and all the teams we played against (except for the team that came in first place) was rooting for us to WIN. Why because the team that did win had the most obnoxious PARENTS you can imagine. They had managed to shut all the other teams out and they actually got VIOLENT when we scored. Their kids were actually asking them to be quit. The kids did play rough &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. but the parents WIN AT ALL COST attitude was really over the top. We tied them and we won all our other games, they won the tournament merely because they had shut the other teams out.</p>
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		<title>By: Angela, Mother Crone</title>
		<link>http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/comment-page-1/#comment-34135</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela, Mother Crone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/26/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/#comment-34135</guid>
		<description>This whole thread has me realizing that I have quite a success-oriented mindset!   I encourage my kids to enter science fairs, history fairs, and writing contests.  I also encourage them to enter sporting contests with their shooting, golf and riding.  I wouldn&#039;t say our end goal is only winning, but rather in the act of competing and maing personal challenges. 

I do this because in the process of preparing for the competition, they are learning to focus and apply themselves to a project (or train harder at a sport.)  I think far too many people to not know how to work hard and work well, because they do not have to challenge themselves.  My kids have learned to enjoy challenging themselves and working hard for these projects.  THey learn to plan and set goals, organize and achieve.  Not only are they producing some amazing projects, but they are developing pride in their work and building confidence in their abilities.  

In reality, it isn&#039;t so much about the award.  If they win, which they often do, we celebrate.  If they lose despite really working hard, they also are able to look at another&#039;s efforts with admiration, and are not bothered with losing. They are able to look at their projects and analyze to see what they could have done better.  Mind you, not sulk because they didn&#039;t win, but focus on improving. This is huge! 

Being able to work hard AND smart toward a goal is a SKILL that will remain with them in whatever career they choose, and I think is the real prize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole thread has me realizing that I have quite a success-oriented mindset!   I encourage my kids to enter science fairs, history fairs, and writing contests.  I also encourage them to enter sporting contests with their shooting, golf and riding.  I wouldn&#8217;t say our end goal is only winning, but rather in the act of competing and maing personal challenges. </p>
<p>I do this because in the process of preparing for the competition, they are learning to focus and apply themselves to a project (or train harder at a sport.)  I think far too many people to not know how to work hard and work well, because they do not have to challenge themselves.  My kids have learned to enjoy challenging themselves and working hard for these projects.  THey learn to plan and set goals, organize and achieve.  Not only are they producing some amazing projects, but they are developing pride in their work and building confidence in their abilities.  </p>
<p>In reality, it isn&#8217;t so much about the award.  If they win, which they often do, we celebrate.  If they lose despite really working hard, they also are able to look at another&#8217;s efforts with admiration, and are not bothered with losing. They are able to look at their projects and analyze to see what they could have done better.  Mind you, not sulk because they didn&#8217;t win, but focus on improving. This is huge! </p>
<p>Being able to work hard AND smart toward a goal is a SKILL that will remain with them in whatever career they choose, and I think is the real prize.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/comment-page-1/#comment-34089</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 03:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/26/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/#comment-34089</guid>
		<description>OK, I actually have more issue in general with the concept of doing anything &quot;just for fun&quot; but I might not be thinking of &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://gottsegnet.blogspot.com/2006/10/what-priority-should-fun-have-in.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;fun&lt;/a&gt;&quot; quite the same way.

I think we meet and overcome challenges.  Sometimes that is in the form of &quot;winning&quot; a game or gaining recognition in a task, but not always.  I do not push my children either to win or to &quot;have fun.&quot;  I encourage them to do their best in all things.

My daughter has never been particularly upset over losing...although I am curious how she will react if she does not gain her next rank in Karate.  She has her eye on the brown belt, has been practicing daily and has asked to join the adults class on Saturdays for the extra help (she is only 8).  I&#039;m not pushing her, but am encouraging her in her work.  I like to see her putting forth so much effort.  

And I really don&#039;t think she would be showing the improvement and the confidence if Sensei passed out belts to everyone who tested.  She knows that it is tough to qualify for brown belt and that she will be the youngest if she passes in May.  There are kids in the class who cry and have temper tantrums when they don&#039;t pass after testing night...and I tend to think it is because they are too used to the &quot;everyone&#039;s a winner&quot; concept, which does not really play out in real life.</description>
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		<title>By: redseashaun</title>
		<link>http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/comment-page-1/#comment-34086</link>
		<dc:creator>redseashaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phatmommy.com/2007/04/26/when-did-success-become-a-curse-word/#comment-34086</guid>
		<description>I just wanted to toss out a different perspective -- I have a &quot;profoundly gifted&quot; child and I was considered the same as a young person. I did win tons of things up through college, often without trying. My daughter gets praise heaped on her for all kinds of things that she can &quot;trounce&quot; her age-level peers at, not because of any serious effort on her part.

For me, my gut reaction to competition is a) if I win, it is meaningless, b) I&#039;d sure as hell better win because if I don&#039;t it will let down all the people who think I always win.  (Luckily I am an adult and I can move past my gut reaction, but there it is.)

So yes, in our house we do not emphasize winning, though we do not shy away from the idea of competition -- in piano, in games, in spelling, in writing. I am all about process, because when success comes very easily, you need something else to maintain your interest. You may even find that what seems meritorious to others does not seem that way to you, and vice versa.

I am *not* all about fun (just ask my kids!). In fact I agree with Mel Levine, who says that &quot;fun&quot; is the new F word. We should not be asking our kids if a game was fun, a class was fun, etc. We need to ask whether they learned something interesting, or whether something interesting happened. I can agree that doing things solely because they are fun is not a good philosophy of life.

But I would also maintain that &quot;winning&quot; is not the word you want here. &quot;Win&quot; has a strong connotation of triumphing over something else. That&#039;s not my model of life. I&#039;m not out to vanquish anything or anyone, not even my own dark side. (But that&#039;s a whole other discussion!)  I don&#039;t think that&#039;s the way to knowledge and understanding, and those are my highest values. (I&#039;m an Enneagram 5 and a Virgo . . . if that tells you anything.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wanted to toss out a different perspective &#8212; I have a &#8220;profoundly gifted&#8221; child and I was considered the same as a young person. I did win tons of things up through college, often without trying. My daughter gets praise heaped on her for all kinds of things that she can &#8220;trounce&#8221; her age-level peers at, not because of any serious effort on her part.</p>
<p>For me, my gut reaction to competition is a) if I win, it is meaningless, b) I&#8217;d sure as hell better win because if I don&#8217;t it will let down all the people who think I always win.  (Luckily I am an adult and I can move past my gut reaction, but there it is.)</p>
<p>So yes, in our house we do not emphasize winning, though we do not shy away from the idea of competition &#8212; in piano, in games, in spelling, in writing. I am all about process, because when success comes very easily, you need something else to maintain your interest. You may even find that what seems meritorious to others does not seem that way to you, and vice versa.</p>
<p>I am *not* all about fun (just ask my kids!). In fact I agree with Mel Levine, who says that &#8220;fun&#8221; is the new F word. We should not be asking our kids if a game was fun, a class was fun, etc. We need to ask whether they learned something interesting, or whether something interesting happened. I can agree that doing things solely because they are fun is not a good philosophy of life.</p>
<p>But I would also maintain that &#8220;winning&#8221; is not the word you want here. &#8220;Win&#8221; has a strong connotation of triumphing over something else. That&#8217;s not my model of life. I&#8217;m not out to vanquish anything or anyone, not even my own dark side. (But that&#8217;s a whole other discussion!)  I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s the way to knowledge and understanding, and those are my highest values. (I&#8217;m an Enneagram 5 and a Virgo . . . if that tells you anything.)</p>
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