When Did Success Become a Curse Word?
// 4.26.07 // Filed under: Parenting
There are some excellent discussions going on in the comments of my post on Winning, Losing, Praising, as well as a related post at O’DonnellWeb. Check them out now. I’ll wait.
OK, all caught up? Super. Now, I have a question for all of you. How do you feel about “winning” in academics? Do you teach your children to do their best in school? Do they enter contests or try to get scholarships (i.e. do they try to win)? What about “winning” in other endeavors such as music and art?
I’m curious if it’s just sports that gets everyone’s panties in a twist. If you are a parent that tells your children, “Don’t try to win, just have fun,” do you also tell them, “Don’t try to win the essay contest, just have fun writing?” And if so, why enter a contest at all?
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Success is a curse word when your definition of it is reliant on the final score of a arbitrary competition in any endeavor. If your kid doesn’t win the baseball game or scholarship he did not fail, he just didn’t win the game or scholarship. Too many parents wrap up their egos (and teach their kids the same) on outside factors like the scores of games. Success or failure is measured internally. If you did your best and had a good time doing it, you didn’t fail, regardless of the scoreboard.
I don’t recall anyone saying that they tell their kids, “Don’t try to win.” I’ve seen my son’s teams lose games, but the heart they put into trying to win and the fact that they did their very best shows that we have found success.
Why do you seem to think that not winning is the same as failing? When did success begin to mean win? Should I now view all of life as a series of competitions? Can I say that I beat you and made you fail if I feel that my blog is better than yours?
I was about to say that I do not tell my children to not try to win, then I read this line: “DonâÂÂt try to win the essay contest, just have fun writing?” I realized that I did say just that. Last year my then-second grader entered a Reading Rainbow Young Writers and Illustrators Contest. I told him it was just for fun, to do his best, but that there would be a lot of kids entering, so not to get his heart set on winning. I took his entry and had it bound (I sent in a digital color copy) and he had something he could be really proud of.
The point of entering is to have an incentive to put together his best work in a finished format (as opposed to his rough drafts of drawings and stories he usually does). Winning, in my mind, is a secondary goal. The satisfaction of putting together a quality project that he can be proud of is the real prize. (Of course, the prize pack he won was pretty sweet, too.)
I have the same attitude when I enter a contest. I have no delusions that I am the best at anything, what with like 6.5 billion other people in the world and all. I do my best and it gives me the motivation to complete a project beyond what I might normally do. For example, when I enter a sewing contest, I have to write out the directions for my creations, which is something I normally wouldn’t take the time to do.
Entering a contest is a way to push yourself to do your best. Winning is just gravy.
Chris, it might be an arbitrary competition, but it’s one whose parameters are all understood and agreed to by all participants in advance (and here I’m now speaking more of older children and adults — young children may not understand the concepts wholly). The losers are losers by their own definition of what it meant to participate in a game in the first place. If not, they didn’t enter the competition on honest terms, and are thus worse than losers in a single contest.
And Sam, games aren’t analogous to life, because generally in life no one needs to lose for another to win. But even in the small arenas in life where you are faced with a win-lose situation, it certainly isn’t a matter of “feeling” that one has won or lost, any more than the Yankees can “feel” they’re not in last place.
On any measure you care to name, some people are better than others. Kids understand this basic fact, but some people would rather re-define winning and losing (or success and failure) than have to face it.
Sam wrote: “Can I say that I beat you and made you fail if I feel that my blog is better than yours?” Not if you simply “feel” your blog is better than mine. But if there was a competition in which others voted your blog better than mine, then yes, you could say that you beat me and made me fail *at that competition.* That doesn’t mean I’m a failure, it just means that I failed at that particular contest. And I’ll try harder, or try another competition, next time.
I see many times where life is a win-lose situation. You can win a scholarship, acceptance to college, a job, a promotion, a sale, a new client… in all these situations, someone else “loses” the opportunity. In all these situations, you have to focus on “winning” to accomplish your goal.
I would never tell an older child that a contest is “just for fun.” I think that belittles the child, the contest and the other entrants. Having a race in your backyard swimming pool is just for fun. Entering a contest where your work will be judged on its merit is not just for fun. Yes, when kids are very young, skills are the focus. But I personally don’t think people give 8, 9, 10 yr olds enough credit. I’m not saying to push them and tell them to win at all costs, but they are certainly old enough to understand winning and losing and to take pride in their work.
When I enter a contest, or apply myself at anything in which I’m talented, I do expect to win. At the very least, I expect that I have an excellent chance to win. I intend on passing this attitude on to my children. I guess I’ll have to accept that I am an anomaly.
I just wanted to toss out a different perspective — I have a “profoundly gifted” child and I was considered the same as a young person. I did win tons of things up through college, often without trying. My daughter gets praise heaped on her for all kinds of things that she can “trounce” her age-level peers at, not because of any serious effort on her part.
For me, my gut reaction to competition is a) if I win, it is meaningless, b) I’d sure as hell better win because if I don’t it will let down all the people who think I always win. (Luckily I am an adult and I can move past my gut reaction, but there it is.)
So yes, in our house we do not emphasize winning, though we do not shy away from the idea of competition — in piano, in games, in spelling, in writing. I am all about process, because when success comes very easily, you need something else to maintain your interest. You may even find that what seems meritorious to others does not seem that way to you, and vice versa.
I am *not* all about fun (just ask my kids!). In fact I agree with Mel Levine, who says that “fun” is the new F word. We should not be asking our kids if a game was fun, a class was fun, etc. We need to ask whether they learned something interesting, or whether something interesting happened. I can agree that doing things solely because they are fun is not a good philosophy of life.
But I would also maintain that “winning” is not the word you want here. “Win” has a strong connotation of triumphing over something else. That’s not my model of life. I’m not out to vanquish anything or anyone, not even my own dark side. (But that’s a whole other discussion!) I don’t think that’s the way to knowledge and understanding, and those are my highest values. (I’m an Enneagram 5 and a Virgo . . . if that tells you anything.)
This whole thread has me realizing that I have quite a success-oriented mindset! I encourage my kids to enter science fairs, history fairs, and writing contests. I also encourage them to enter sporting contests with their shooting, golf and riding. I wouldn’t say our end goal is only winning, but rather in the act of competing and maing personal challenges.
I do this because in the process of preparing for the competition, they are learning to focus and apply themselves to a project (or train harder at a sport.) I think far too many people to not know how to work hard and work well, because they do not have to challenge themselves. My kids have learned to enjoy challenging themselves and working hard for these projects. THey learn to plan and set goals, organize and achieve. Not only are they producing some amazing projects, but they are developing pride in their work and building confidence in their abilities.
In reality, it isn’t so much about the award. If they win, which they often do, we celebrate. If they lose despite really working hard, they also are able to look at another’s efforts with admiration, and are not bothered with losing. They are able to look at their projects and analyze to see what they could have done better. Mind you, not sulk because they didn’t win, but focus on improving. This is huge!
Being able to work hard AND smart toward a goal is a SKILL that will remain with them in whatever career they choose, and I think is the real prize.
We always try to WIN, hey I am a competitive type of person.
But I do try to stress that good SPORTSMANSHIP is important too, losing with grace is IMPORTANT. Just as learning to win with grace is.
For example at a recent soccer tournament. We came in second, which wasn’t bad and all the teams we played against (except for the team that came in first place) was rooting for us to WIN. Why because the team that did win had the most obnoxious PARENTS you can imagine. They had managed to shut all the other teams out and they actually got VIOLENT when we scored. Their kids were actually asking them to be quit. The kids did play rough ……….. but the parents WIN AT ALL COST attitude was really over the top. We tied them and we won all our other games, they won the tournament merely because they had shut the other teams out.
With my kid, it’s easy. He gets a hit every time, never misses a ball, and wins the game, or else he gets a spanking and, of course, no dinner.
There’s no positive reinforcement in baseball!!
Just kidding…don’t go call CPS on me.
I agree with Shannon. Winning isn’t EVERYTHING, but it is why we show up isn’t it? Having fun, doing your best, challenging onself, gaining a feeling of accomplishment, and learning good sportsmanship to work as a team are all part of it as well. It’s so much more that a “W” or “L”…it’s the experience. I think kids learn more from a heartbreaking loss, like the one referred to in this post, than an easy win. Let’s face it you are not going to “win them all” in anything in life. You might even get a few bad calls, i.e. runner should have been safe but was called out. I think it teaches that life is not fair, but you never give up. You go tell the other guy good game and shake his hand with class, you go home with your folks, and next time, you put your cleats on and try again… After your spanking of course.
Coach Norman Dale said it best.
If you put your effort and concentration into playing to your potential, to be the best that you can be, I don’t care what the scoreboard says at the end of the game, in my book we’re gonna be winners.
People should always try to be a success in life. The only alternative is a failure.
My daughter’s young, but I’ve found she’s benefitted immeasurably from being removed from all competitive or comparative situations. In her strong areas she would hate to stand out so she didn’t really do anything. In her weak areas she would hate to stand out so she didn’t do anything. So many teachers (I mean in activities, not especially school), think children learn well through playing games, but there is usually a competitive component, and this shuts her down. She loves the sense of progress compared to where she was before. Maybe it will all change as she gets older.
Delurking just to say, that our society places way too much emphasis on Winning as Everything. I think that unchecked, it can be rather destructive and lead to anxious children and parents fighting on the sidelines.
Kids who put a lot of effort into something that didn’t win and therefore went unnoticed will start to think that effort is worthless. That’s how kids get lost and demotivated.
Sure, it would be great for my kids to win competitions from time to time, but what I really want is for them to understand the value of doing their best. I don’t understand why that’s no longer enough.
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